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EUROPEANA-TECH  August 2014

EUROPEANA-TECH August 2014

Subject:

Re: "Lossless" EDM - erring towards data quality

From:

Christian-Emil Smith Ore <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Christian-Emil Smith Ore <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 1 Aug 2014 08:08:41 +0000

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text/plain

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text/plain (1 lines)

Hi 
Another example of data without title (in the ordinary meaning of title). In most (almost all) manuscript collections a manuscript is identified by its shelfmark and are without title. eg 'Hon. III. ann. XI. ep. 367' a copy book  entry in the Vatican about a letter from pope Honorious III to the archbishop of Nidaros in Nov. 4th 1226.  Most medieval manuscripts do not have a title. Neither do private letters in correspondence archives. They are usually identified by sender, receiver and date. 
 
As Martin points out, 99,9 % of museum objects do not have a title.  
 
However,  if one by title accept the inventory number or the five first words of the object description, then of course all objects have a title. But tihsi is a little like Cinderella's sister's method to make the foot fit in the glass shoe. 
 
C-E 
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: Discussion list for Europeana Technical Developments 
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Antoine Isaac 
>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 11:59 AM 
>To: [log in to unmask] 
>Subject: Re: "Lossless" EDM - erring towards data quality 
> 
>Hi Martin, 
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> I have to say that Europeana's main problem is not really the deliberate 
>reduction of data, it is that the data is just not present. How about sending 
>thousands of items with the same non-informative title (like 'picture')? 
>> That's another side of the same medal: Many things have very few data, 
>few things have many data. 
>>> I am quite sympathetic to your stance of making no property 
>recommended, but I still believe the value of an aggregator is also to try and 
>offer to data re-users access to a data ecosystem that has some minimum 
>coherence. 
>> Sure! How do we know in which scope such coherence exists? What is the 
>> size of the ecosystem(s) ?;-) 
> 
> 
>A trick point indeed, as ou know the sort of scale we're talking about ;-)  I'd 
>say that a minimum scenario would be able to find the object by one 
>relatively simple way (a decent combination of who what where when 
>criteria). I have seen some items that are really not findable at all. Very 
>interesting objects, but there's just not enough description. 
> 
> 
>>> and there are many cases that do require basic metadata, like title or 
>subject. Actually if you have an example of application that happily mixes 
>title-less objects with objects with titles, please send it, I am curious! 
>> All archaeological collections: Some famous statues have titles, most have 
>not.  The titles are relatively irrelevant, the find-spot/site, approximate(!) 
>date and excavation event being the most important thing. 
> 
> 
>Yes, I know that such data exist. My question was about the sort of 
>application that could exploit them (e.g., a portal for general audience or 
>researchers) and mixed with data that has different profiles. I can imagine 
>fairly well that statues without titles won't be an issue in a system where 
>archaeologists would search based on the place, the time and the type of 
>objects (and even then , what if the type is missing?) 
> 
>Best, 
> 
>Antoine 
> 
>>> 
>>> On 7/31/14 11:00 AM, martin wrote: 
>>>> Dear Antoine, 
>>>> 
>>>> I believe we have to put an end to the idea that metadata at the 
>>>> aggregator level are supposed to have a completeness to be 
>>>> functional. With the CRM we are taking strictly the position that NO 
>property is recommended. ONLY in a particular environment/application 
>completeness makes any sense. 
>>>> 
>>>> For primary evidence (museum objects etc.), the completeness is 
>restricted to what is known. 
>>>> For application, completeness is a research program, and again not a data 
>prerequisite. 
>>>> 
>>>> Particular communities should develop concepts of what are relevant 
>>>> data in their domain, not Europeana. The current catastrophy of 
>>>> Europeana is that data are deliberately reduced by providers to fit central 
>recommendations, which cannot differentiate adequately. 
>>>> 
>>>> Relevance cannot be expressed in terms of properties. It is a question of 
>reason. 
>>>> 
>>>> Librarians are a particular domain. They typically (but not always) 
>>>> have "minimal data" about all objects, which do not make any sense for 
>archaeology for example. 
>>>> 
>>>> I think this is an educational question for the user communities, 
>>>> otherwise Europeana will hardly steer free of this mess ;-) . Who 
>>>> will start the education? Who will make the theory to be taught?:-( 
>>>> 
>>>> Best, 
>>>> 
>>>> Martin 
>>>> 

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